Yesterday, I published Chapter 1 of my chat with bloggers Dave of DaveTriesBallet.com and Ms. Adult Beginner (adultbeginner.wordpress.com). If you haven’t read that yet, I suggest you click right here because you don’t want to miss how this lady and gent got started in ballet, which one is performing after only a few months of study, and you know, other witty banter.
No? You’re sticking. Okay, here goes Chapter Two…
Nichelle: How often do you take classes per week and is it important to have a studio that allows some schedule flexibility or is it easier for you to have a consistent class time?
Dave: I’m in a reasonably nice position as I am in graduate school and so have a fairly flexible schedule. I have lectures I can’t miss, but can work around my other commitments. That being said, I like to have set class times that I can get into a routine. I currently take two classes during the week, each 1.25 hours in the evening. Then on a Saturday I head into New York and take 3 classes (total 4 hours) in a row, with an hour break after the second class. I will now also have a 2 hour rehearsal every Friday night for Coppelia. I would love to take more classes, but I don’t think my schedule (or bank balance!) will allow it.
AB: Your ballet schedule is Wow! I take class twice a week, sometimes three times, and I want zero flexibility in class time. A well scheduled class is one that I don’t have to check on and confirm.
Class with my first teacher was dependent on attendance, and I hated not knowing in the morning if class was on or not for that evening.
What most surprised you about ballet classes once you got started?
Dave: How physically hard it is. Today I took my three classes in New York and by the end my legs were really tired – like I’d done a hard bike ride or run. I got on the subway and felt like Barney in How I Met Your Mother when he runs the marathon and then can’t stand up to get off the subway! When one of my friends first saw a ballet she commented on the male dancers saying that it looked as strenuous as a sport, and I agree – it’s seriously hard work. But that is also one of the reasons I love it.
AB: Was thrilled that ballet teachers expect everyone to do everything correctly. Even beginners! There was none of that, “Oh, you’re not ready for full lotus, you take Shameful Half Lotus,” No! None of that! Being expected to do stuff correctly means that your teacher believes you can. Which is sweet.
Speaking of expectations, how important is it to feel pushed or challenged in your classes?
Dave: I love it when a teacher pushes or challenges me. My best class ever was just before Christmas when only three people turned up for class – me and two girls in their 20’s who had been dancing for many years. The teacher taught at their level and challenged me to do all that they were doing. I relished the challenge and in the end did some things I had never done before – like tour jetés and saut de chats. Great stuff! Even today, midway through a combination my teacher challenged me to try a double pirouette – I had never tried before and they weren’t pretty but I got around and felt proud for doing so.
AB: It’s important to do one thing well and one thing badly each class.
Oooh, well said. It’s important for teachers to provide that opportunity for their students – the accomplishment and the challenge. Motivation!
Do you (or would you) take lessons at a school which also caters to children or teens?
AB: Well, it depends. If the children are beginners too that’s fine. But- I went to a class once (and I’ve never been back to this studio) which was called Adult Beginner/Intermediate. And there were children in the class. And they were at a much higher level of ballet skill than I was. And I just barely managed not to cry in class in front of the children. It was mortifying.
Seriously, I felt stupid and awful and had that been my first class I would never have had a second. That one class could’ve killed Adult Beginner, oh noes!
Wrote a post about that experience, which ended up making me laugh, so In Your Face, Bad Class! I win!
Speaking of writing on class experiences. You’ve both touched on teaching style and what makes a good class or teacher. Good stuff. (on Dave Tries Ballet | on Adult Beginner) Ok, back to dancing with kids…
Dave: Both my schools cater for children. My weekday school is mainly kids, and our class follows the boys class. I’ve only ever taken adult classes though (with the occasional kid) so it hasn’t been an issue. I don’t know how I would feel about taking a kids class. I’ve been searching ballet schools for when I move back to the UK for my PhD in August and at some of those I would be able/have to take classes with teens – I guess if it was the only way to take classes I wouldn’t mind.
Let’s talk dance wear. Was the typical dance uniform daunting at first?
AB: I’ve never been to a class that held adults to any kind of dress code. Other than slippers, of course, gotta have slippers. I wore leggings, slippers, and a tight T-shirt to class for the first six months or so, then decided it would be fun to look more dancer-ish, and bought a leo and tights.The best way to make adults feel comfortable is to be extremely clear about what’s expected. No one wants to show up in full-on pink tights, ballerina drag if the rest of the class is in sweats. The biggest worry for adults is not the revealing fit but the fear of looking too eager.
Dave: If you talk about attire for guys there is no avoiding the dance belt. This certainly was intimidating, but after reading various blogs about it I realized that it is a necessary evil. Although it still isn’t exactly comfortable, I got used to it quickly and wouldn’t dream of taking a class without one on (that would get painful *very* quickly!). As for the rest, I wear black tights, black ballet slippers and a white t-shirt. Although neither of my schools have strict dress codes, I like the formality of my attire. It is one of my ways of showing the teacher I am taking their class seriously, and also a way of showing respect for both them and ballet. All of my teachers let students wear pretty much what they want – within reason, but I tend to find that most of the students like to dress reasonably formal.
AB: True dat, typical dance uniform shows that you’re ready for the Hard Truth.
Dave, what are the special challenges of being a MALE adult beginner?
Dave: As a guy, there are obvious challenges in the form of stereotyping. I mean, when I’ve told some people I take ballet their first response is “are you gay then?”! This can be frustrating, but then again I’ve had a couple of dates with girls I’ve met in class so there can be benefits from being a male dancer!
One thing about dancing that I found a challenge to start with was realizing that men and women dance differently – I will never be as flexible as most girls in class, and on the other hand most of them will never jump as high as me. Once you accept that there are differences – and that classes will usually cater for the masses, for example doing jumps at a quick tempo for female dancers, it’s easier to accept. It’s nice if a teacher makes a point of doing something just for the guy’s though!
AB, same question… except for the male part.
AB: Being expected to be graceful and feminine, just by dint of being female. Spoiler alert: ladies are clumsy, uncoordinated and un-flexible too!
Dave, I know you’ve been devouring dance performance. I suppose it helps that you’re living near a major dance hub at the moment. Does learning ballet make you want to see more of it?
Dave: I have certainly been devouring dance! I had seen a couple of ballets before taking lessons, but quite a while ago and I can’t remember much about them. Since taking classes I’ve seen a lot more, and I think they have been more interesting for having taken classes. Although I still appreciate them objectively as an art form, I spend a lot of time in performances trying to name moves they make, or recognize things we’ve done in class. Although obviously performers are doing very advanced things, it’s amazing how many bits I can recognize.
AB: I’m like a kid learning to draw. I’m holding the crayon in my fist and trying not to draw on the table too much. The great masters are wasted on me at this point in my learning process, but I will develop a discerning eye.
Plus, I don’t live in a very ballet-forward city. I mean, prove me wrong, children but I’ve seen the Sugar Plum Fairy get dropped right on her butt, which on the one hand kind of makes me giggle but on the other hand does not encourage me to crack open the ol’ wallet!
Gotcha. So I want to talk about the whole blogging thing. It seems to me that writing about your experiences has created a kind of support system for you.
AB: Well, here’s the thing: there was a point last summer when all of a sudden adultbeginner was getting page views, like several per day, which is a heck of a lot when you’re accustomed to several per week. And it was terrifying! Like, omg, people are reading this?! Run away! I mean, see previous ‘need to know absolutely no one is paying attention to me for at least 15 minutes every day’.
And these people started commenting! In fact, Nichelle, you were one of my first commenters and I remember turning to Mr. Adult Beginner and saying, “Omg, the lady from Dance Advantage left a comment. What do I do?!” And he was like, “Well, reply! Or don’t. It’s your blog. Just make sure you keep your voice, stay real, don’t get cute.” Good advice, that.
I can’t tell you how strange that is for me. But, excellent advice from hubby. How else has blogging helped in your development?
AB: As a ballet motivator, blogging has been excellent. Have a bad class? Post about it! Feeling lazy and don’t want to go? Too bad, you’ve got readers! Feel confused about something you don’t understand in class? Post and ask!
The blog reminds me that even the awkward and ridiculous is valid, and that reminder is very important as the Adult Beginner is awkward and ridiculous on a regular basis.
Dave: I don’t think I would have taken the leap to start ballet without the support I’ve found through blogging – all you guys and gals are amazing! To begin with I told no one in the “real world” I was starting ballet. This was for a few reasons – the stereotyping I mentioned earlier and in case it didn’t work out.
The blogging community was a collective ‘person’ I could share my experiences with. Even now that I’ve told all my friends I do ballet, most of them don’t know a plié from an arabesque so it is very different telling them what I’ve been doing to telling the online ballet community. On top of that, I’ve been able to ask advice from people online, get help if I’ve forgotten a ballet term, and I even got an offer to be a Party Dad in a local Nutcracker, which unfortunately I didn’t have time to do.
AB: You know, this right here is the difference between DaveTriesBallet and AdultBeginner. Dave, you write to a ballet community through your blog; I write like I’m telling my friend Erin, ‘omg, guess what happened in ballet class?!’ She doesn’t know a thing about ballet, but she loves a good story.
Absolutely, that’s why both blogs intrigue me. I’m so glad you both share your stories in your own unique way. I get a lot out of reading each and seeing the dance world through your eyes. So, thank you!
Are you an adult beginner?
How do your experiences compare to AB and Dave’s?
What most surprised YOU about ballet?
Does taking class make you want to take in more dance?
What has dance done for you?
Do you write about it?
Nichelle (owner/editor)
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Hey – thanks for this series of interviews with AB and Dave, it’s great to read about other adults trying and loving ballet!
How I wish I lived in the states, though, in the UK, classes are so restricted to studios that predominantly cater for children taking gradework. The few studios that do have a really serious adult programme are in the big cities where I don’t live
Still, my studios is awesome, but to take anything more than 1 class a week, I have to bite the bullet and join the teens. If nothing else, it helps me up my game – they were a bit standoffish to start with, but now they just treat me like one of them (with hilarious consequences at times!) and I try to be as flexible and talented as they are!
I’m definitely going to add Dave and AB to my blogroll now, I can’t wait to read more!
Hey Hannah,
Thanks for your thoughts! If it makes you feel any better, I’ve lived in places in the States where it is just like you describe – mostly schools/studios for children that have maybe one or two 1hr/week classes for the adult age group. Sometimes a nearby college can be a place to look but these places rarely have dance companies offering classes for beginners or otherwise. However, I do see a trend in adult-focused dance centers spreading from cities outward.
Best of luck as you continue to dance!
Hey Nichelle!
It was a pleasure being interviewed by you
and I Love your ‘protecting the innocent’ line
ha ha! thanks 🙂 It was my pleasure to feature you and Dave!
Hi Nichelle,
Another great article! As a 26 yr old adult ballet beginner, I have some similar and different experiences from AB and Dave.
For attire, I tend to wear gym clothes – leggings, etc. I do wear a leotard every once in awhile, but it’s kind of uncomfortable for me. I absolutely hate the cold so I also bring in leg warmers. I think leg warmers + shorts is ultimately the best because then you can see your knees too and stay warm.
I’ve found that the biggest challenges for me as an adult beginner dancer is
Mental – What can you really do as an adult? I see many adult dancers also express the desire to become great dancers, but worry that hey we’re just too old to do this. So sometimes you end up a bit down because you know it is incredibly unlikely you could reach that level of dance. That’s why I love hearing these stories especially of Dave being in a ballet already. It’s great encouragement for me.
Time – How do you manage a full time job/career and dance? A lot of times I ended up eating frozen dinners at work so that I could go to dance class right after. Doing both is very taxing.
Injuries – How do you deal with injuries?
This is absolutely the hardest for me. I injured my knees several months ago from going on pointe too early. Most of my life I’ve never been injured or sick. I was a bit of a couch potato. I wasn’t a serious athlete of any sort. And if I got a cold, my parents would still send me off to school. Injuring myself was a very challenging experience for me. I couldn’t get out of bed and learning to deal w/ the pain and how disruptive it was in my life wasn’t something I knew how to handle initially.
I actually started turning to writing more to help with that. I try to keep my dance diary blog up to date where I share awesome dance resources i’ve found. Of course I have included Dance Advantage on my blogroll and in my RSS feeds on the sidebar of my blog 🙂
Thanks,
Bonnie
Hi Bonnie!
Journaling your progress (on a blog or otherwise) is a great tool. Thanks, of course, for your support of DA. It’s most appreciated. You have some great questions. As I’m not an adult beginner myself, I’ll leave them open in hope that some of your fellow adult beginners might want to address them or add their thoughts. But I wanted to say thanks for stopping by!
NP! Happy Chinese New Year. Yes, I love writing about dance it helps me continue to learn since I can’t dance right now. I actually wrote a piece about Chinese traditional dances today in celebration of the New Year. Are you familiar with Chinese dances? If you have some time, please check it out and let me know what you think. I’d like to give Chinese cultural dance some exposure.
Anyway, I hope other adult dancers can share their experiences too and we can learn from each other.
Adult Beginner inspired me to return to ballet, until I went to university I had always taken ballet, but by this January, it had been about 8 years since I was in a ballet class so honestly I feel like a beginner again. I’m in a ballet class with a bunch of kids (the oldest is pumped that in a few months she’ll be 16 and can get her license- I’ve never been about twice as old as a fellow student before). I’m enjoying being back in ballet and I think it will help my belly dancing (which is now my focus). Both AB and Dave have really inspirational blogs 🙂
Nichelle, I would love to link these 2 posts about adult beginners to my blog. Would you mind? Thanks~
Thanks Leigh! Yes, linking is always welcomed! Standard blog etiquette is to use an excerpt from the post or just talk about why you want to share it with your readers and then give the link! I’m happy that you want to share them and I’m sure AB and Dave are too. 🙂
Thank you so much for this series, I am so happy that there is still an interest in ballet outside of little kids being forced to take classes! I started almost 8 years ago at age 27 and I am so glad to be part of the adult beginning ballet community. Keep it up guys!
Another adult beginner here – and I am starting at 38!
I love hearing from other Adult Beginning dancers, because it seems like we are few and far between. I grew up loving dance and performing – and did a lot more on stage, just enough dance to get through musicals and performing in Winter Guard. Then I had a daughter who has found her passion in dance. Spending hours at the dance studio watching and being oh-so-jealous of those young kids and the things they could do.
Finally signed up for the Adult/Teen Beginner Ballet course at the studio the kids dance at. Sometimes it can be frustrating to have teens in the class, but since there are only 3 true adults in the class, it would have been canceled without those teens! Luckily though, they are also true beginners.
Actually looking forward to dancing in the annual recital as well!
Hi Lisa and balletcougar! Sorry to just be responding, I love working with and teaching adult beginners and I love the blogging community that’s sprung up around that unique experience. Cougar, I was glad to discover your blog.
Lisa, I enjoy tweeting with you but didn’t know that you were a winter guard alum. I did indoor guard throughout HS and at the time followed the winter guards (religiously, of course) 🙂 Let me know how you enjoy your recital experience!
I’m a 32 yo beginner (and quite fat to be blunt!). I watched my kids take ballet for a year and a half until I couldn’t stand it anymore. I took a class in college and was dying to dig out my slippers. I kind of eased into it. First I asked if I could just do barre work when my kids did. There I am at a barre across the room from 4-6 year olds so afraid of being “that mom”. But the kids are cool about it. Then I decided to take mom and me with my baby. Then I decided to just plunge in with the teenagers even though they are over my head. They are very cool about it. There is one other mom (older but far more experienced) that comes sometimes. I now take two 1.5 hr classes a week with whoever is dancing whatever the age. It is a wonderful workout, mentally stimulating, and I am improving – though I am not good :). I secretly aspire to earn a tiny part in next year’s recital- Sleeping Beauty. I have never found an exercise I like (hence being so tubby). This I think about constantly!! Can’t wait to get the weight off so I can dance better and wear a leotard!
I am also an adult beginner Blogger! I just came across this post; I follow AB’s blog but never heard of Dave’s so that is a nice find!
My experience differs as well. Where I live my studio only offers adult class once per week and twice per week during summer intensive. It is broken up into 3 levels; beginner, intermediate, advanced. No pointe! I wish I could take class more than once a week, so I installed a home barre to practice in between classes.
My biggest challenge so far has been being taken seriously. Most adults are in these classes for fitness; I want to properly learn ballet! It seems hard to find a studio that is willing to put the time and effort into a student who is not working towards a vocation in dance. Just because we don’t have a career ahead of us doesn’t mean we don’t want to be the best dancers we can be!
As for what I wear to class, I have always, since the very first day, gone as ballerina-esque as possible. I always show up in my leo and ballet pink tights with my hair pulled back in a bun. On cold days I have warm up gear and a variety of leg warmers. Looking good when you are checking for corrections in that mirror really helps with confidence!
It’s so fun to see all the AB blogs that are popping up. I love the perspective. I really appreciate that you’ve shared this common dilemma:
“It seems hard to find a studio that is willing to put the time and effort into a student who is not working towards a vocation in dance. Just because we don’t have a career ahead of us doesn’t mean we don’t want to be the best dancers we can be!”
I find this can be true for even non-adults. “Recreational” students can fall by the wayside in some schools training for careers or for competitions. I generally feel I do well as a teacher in having high expectations for all of my dancers, regardless of their goals because to dance well requires training well in whatever time is allotted. Honestly, the fitness benefits only come if one is working attentively to do things correctly.
I’m glad that you’ve made the point above and hope other schools and teachers think on it in terms of how and what they offer. It can be hard to get a committed group of adults (or any age) together but good training and teaching is good training and teaching. Period. And people will generally rise to and appreciate high expectations.